(Ep.75) Holiday Depression

CHUCK: 0:10

Hey, welcome back to another episode of let's Just Talk About it podcast. I'm your host, Chuck, and if you're here for the first time, this platform was created to give genuine people just like you an opportunity to share a portion of your life's journey. So, with that being said, the holidays are just around the corner, and I know that this is supposed to be an exciting time of the year. However, that's not the story for a lot of people nowadays. So today I have mental health therapist Telisa Randle back on with me to have a discussion to bring light to why so many people are struggling mentally this time of the year. So, you don't want to miss this amazing conversation. As a matter of fact, do me a favor go and grab your husband, your wife, your children, or even call a friend and gather around to listen to my conversation with Telisa on let's Just Talk About it podcast. Hey, let's jump right in. Welcome back to a brand new episode. Today. I have returning guest mental health therapist Telisa Randall on with me today. How are you doing today.

Telisa Randle: 1:09

Hey, how are you today?

CHUCK: 1:11

Doing good. Good to have you back. I'm glad to be back. Since we're approaching the holiday seasons, telysa, we decided to have a conversation about depression, suicide and grief. This is a special time of year where we supposed to be happy because we get to be around families, right and friends, but the truth of the matter, for a lot of people, that isn't their reality, perhaps because of a loss of a loved one, and I was thinking about even because of the war going on right now, maybe some you know unhappy people. So a lot of people are struggling mentally to find that happy place. Health partners has a survey that says 38% of people felt their stress levels increased during the holiday season, and the national alliance found that 64% of people living with mental illness reported that their conditions worsened around the holiday season. So in this episode, telysa, let's talk about it. Let's jump in to the subject that people don't really want to talk about, and that's having those suicidal thoughts and being depressed during this time of year.

Telisa Randle: 2:15

Yes, During this time of year there is a lot of what they call seasonal depression. That does go on when it comes to change weather, time change, and it kind of alters your mood a little bit. So, yeah, people are really out here and it's really a it's a diagnosis.

CHUCK: 2:33

You mentioned before we got on. You mentioned that this is a subject people don't like to talk about, and that's those suicidal thoughts and depression. Why is that?

Telisa Randle: 2:42

Well, depression is a. It's a very sensitive subject to talk about because you know anything. If a person is really vulnerable to that and then they're listening to something, it could be something and what the person says, that can you know, that can trigger them, that can set them off, and then so people don't want to be responsible for stuff like that. So a lot of times it's hard to talk about it.

CHUCK: 3:06

You mentioned seasonal. Seasonal so you said like when it gets dark, early depression and you know loneliness can set in right.

Telisa Randle: 3:16

Yeah, you know how the summertime, sometimes with the summertime, people are feeling a little bit because the sun is out. You know some promotes better and good energy, whereas if you don't see the sun, the sun is not out that much, it doesn't promote that much energy in people. So during those seasons when the time changed and it started getting dark a little bit earlier, they call it the winter blues. Yeah, winter blues is something, and sometimes they will overwhelm people. You know, like I said earlier, when they're trying to, you know, just go about their day, then all of a sudden there's this change that goes on in the atmosphere.

CHUCK: 3:54

Right right.

Telisa Randle: 3:55

And then you look around and it looks like it's starting to get darker, because usually when it's hot outside, it's in the summertime, it starts getting dark, like eight, seven, thirty, eight o'clock at night, right. But when it's wintertime and the winter blues come in and gets darker earlier, like maybe at five, five thirty, you start sensing the darkness coming in and it seems to alter the mood and then sometimes it causes a lot of fatigue, it throws off the sleeping pattern and in the winter blues season is a lot of weight gaining and overeating, but in the summertime it's about exercising and trying to lose that weight.

CHUCK: 4:29

Trying to get it over yeah.

Telisa Randle: 4:31

So they will make the effort to go and do you know, some sorts of exercise and sometimes it raises that energy level which takes away some of that depression.

CHUCK: 4:41

So do you think, like doing this season, like social media has has a place in that, having those thoughts of comparing ourselves, that we fall into that unhappy place you know?

Telisa Randle: 4:53

Well, I would say, each person is different. Yeah, and you know, in each state, each country is on different times.

CHUCK: 5:00

So it just depends.

Telisa Randle: 5:02

if you're like, say, for instance, we're here right here in Virginia and it gets dark around five thirty, If we go look on TikTok and we see people out there, you know having a good time.

CHUCK: 5:12

I'm looking like they haven't fun. I don't know, but yeah, and it's hot to them yeah.

Telisa Randle: 5:17

You know it doesn't in that moment it doesn't really affect for me from what I feel Got you. And I say that I have it, but I know that I change moves when the weather change Okay. You know. So I would say that it will kind of take my mind off of it. Then, when I come off of it, then I come to the realization that all is dark out there, got you? You know? So it's just, each person is different, got you.

CHUCK: 5:37

I want to go here with you because on the last episode we were talking about the fintanau crisis that you lost your brother. So how does that affect you? Experiencing the recent passing of your brother this time of year? You know because you you experienced it firsthand. So what does that do to you?

Telisa Randle: 5:58

For me, you got to think about my intellectual development, so I'm kind of a little bit different.

CHUCK: 6:02

Okay.

Telisa Randle: 6:03

So I got to see it from a perspective of when it comes around to the holidays like Thanksgiving or Christmas or something that then I would remember things that we had, we've done around this season and where he's at around this season and stuff like that. So yeah, so I do think about that, I have thought about that. Actually, I thought about it earlier today that usually around the Thanksgiving time. You know, if I cook dinner here, come here. If not, then I'll just take them somewhere. He likes to go to Golden Corral, so sometimes that's that's one of the places where we'll sit down and eat.

CHUCK: 6:37

Got you. So there's a such thing, like we talked about triggers, like something like a song or memory can trigger things off to make you go into that place of what is it winter blues.

Telisa Randle: 6:49

Yeah, into the winter blues. Now, if you're talking about winter blues from a perspective of suicide, yeah, there could be some things that do trigger you off, I got you. So during the winter months and it sets your seasonal depression. It makes it that much more overwhelming or that much more intensified and, yeah, I can't have a a real good effect on you in the wintertime and sometimes people do go a little bit deeper in their depression because of it.

CHUCK: 7:19

Yeah, yeah, if I think that's across the board, that's my opinion, whether it be suicide or just grieving somebody's past, and that anything can trigger it off, like a song or you see a certain place, memories of whatever can trigger it all.

Telisa Randle: 7:35

Yeah, yeah, memory, but you know what? One thing that you can say about the seasonal depression when it comes to suicide is, since I've worked in the field of mental health and we talk about neuro therapy which is in the brain, and so one of the things that they talk about is how the sunlight during the fall and the winter can lead the brain making less serotonin. Because, you know, they talk about that type of stuff, and then it's a chemical they consider to be linked to it that regulates our mood. And so when our mood is regulated, or when it's not working the way that we want it to work or the way that we think, that is where we begin to feel depressed, and then the symptoms of fatigue and weight gain start kicking in, and then we start noticing those type of things, and then so those could be triggers for us.

CHUCK: 8:21

Got you. Wow, I really want to have that conversation with a young person. You know, just talk to them about how they feel in this season. You know what I'm saying. Like, what do they go through mentally? Because we always talk to adults about suicide and depression, but how do the youth cope with it? Because they, you know, go in silence, they shut down, so you never know what they're dealing with. You know what I'm saying, so I really want to have that conversation as well with a younger person.

Telisa Randle: 8:49

Well, it depends on if they're already suffering from depression, because usually youth kids, children, young teenagers they hang out with each other, they have fun with each other, so the season sometimes doesn't really matter for them, because, you know, I would say, like in the city of Chicago, if one time come you see a bunch of teenagers running out there in a snow door and snowball at each other, so they could like the winter, you know what I'm saying. So it just depends on if the individual is, if they're isolated already, if they're suffering from the symptoms of depression already, so winter symptoms will kick in and just make it that much more troubling for them.

CHUCK: 9:28

Got you. So this is a great segue into the subject of suicidal thoughts. We mentioned it, but let's talk about that, because what makes a person get to that place that they feel like they no longer matter? You know what I'm saying? Like that's a real dark place where you just feel like I don't belong, nobody loves me. Why am I here? You know that's a dark place. Let's talk about it.

Telisa Randle: 9:52

Yeah, yeah, suicide is. It's really, really a dark place. It's a real, real sensitive subject for people to hear and sometimes it's a sensitive subject for people to be a part of, because they may have some experience in suicide, like a loved one or something like that, or they're in that suicidal mode themselves. So sometimes the way that the symptoms of the suicide harms them, it can take them into a place in which they just don't feel like they want to belong anymore. They don't belong anymore Because there are many factors that increase the risk for suicide or protect against it. So it just depends. And you know suicide is connected. It's connected to some form of injury and sometimes some form of violence. For example, you know, a child being bullied or a child being abused or sexual violence or something like that can put a person that risk a suicide.

CHUCK: 10:52

Like a trauma, like a trauma.

Telisa Randle: 10:54

Yeah, like a past trauma. Wow, yeah, like a trauma.

CHUCK: 10:57

That's deep. I was reading about, you know, some warning signs of suicidal feelings, thoughts or behaviors. And the first one says changes in eating and sleep habits, like you mentioned. You know, sometimes you want to work out and then winter time, you know you get the winter blues. Then it talks about loss of interest in usual activities. You know what I mean. Like you know, just don't want to do nothing, no more.

Telisa Randle: 11:20

Right, and that's the truth that sometimes those symptoms that are depression are also the same symptoms that are like suicide, because that's a stepping ground or a step towards the intensification of it, and so feeling sad is related to depression and it's also related to suicide. Wow. Loss of interest or the loss of pleasure of being in activity is also another symptom that is a major depression, and also suicide, yeah. Like you said, you read something and talked about appetite. Changes in the appetite usually eating more or craving certain things can also change the mood of depression and also the mood of suicide and changes in your sleep. Some people can sleep a lot, some people can sleep less, but it changes. It's not of the norm. Yeah, you know, and of course you know the loss of energy. You know the increase of purposeless physical activities. You know slow moving, slow speech and stuff like that.

CHUCK: 12:25

Yeah.

Telisa Randle: 12:26

Say for instance, like I was looking at something what they call a survival guilt right.

CHUCK: 12:32

Talk about that. That's deep and that's military.

Telisa Randle: 12:35

So a lot of that sometimes is military. That survivor's guilt can drive the surviving military person into those thoughts of death or suicide. So there's lots of different symptoms that can lead a person that is already depressed into suicide.

CHUCK: 12:52

You said something deep. You said survival grief.

Telisa Randle: 12:55

Yeah, survival is grief. Yeah, because you know we think about it when you're in the military, like you're, like we're at war and then you know something goes off, the bomb go off and you might have supposed to have been the person that stepped on or whatever blew up, but the other person stepped on it in front of you instead and they didn't survive. But you survive. So sometimes you just like, man, that should have been me, that should be me. Or even when you out with your friends and you know you got a buddy that just came in from the military and they just come to hang out with you and something happened and they ended up getting a stray bullet or something like that. It can bring about survival guiltiness into the other person.

CHUCK: 13:32

Wow, that's deep. And here's another one we haven't talked about, really had a discussion, because it's like we swept it under the rug. We just went through COVID. Covid's still here, but I'm talking about the major part of COVID. We just went. We lost a lot of people. So it's like I think that still affects our mental. You know, like COVID, those who had COVID had lingering effects from COVID and I think mentally we've had lingering effects from COVID. You know, still dealing with it. You know, not even realizing that we are, because that was a traumatic time.

Telisa Randle: 14:07

Yeah, that was very a traumatic time for a lot of people, even for myself, knowing that people around me were dying and just being a therapist and going into emergency therapy for people and then they're coming to talk to you about people they just lost. There are survivors guilt in that too. Yeah, yeah, I can see that and as a whole household. There's a whole household that survived the COVID you gave it to them and one person of the whole household didn't survive. That can drive you into survivors guilt too and say, man, that should have been me. So it's a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of things of that sort that can bring about the thoughts of suicide. And there's no. Depression is one of the biggest thing that's going on right now in our world when it comes to suicide and depression, and suicide is the leading cause of death. So I've been the leading cause. The leading cause of death.

CHUCK: 15:02

It's not drug addiction, it was.

Telisa Randle: 15:05

Not drug addiction, suicide.

CHUCK: 15:06

Suicide wow.

Telisa Randle: 15:07

It's higher than yeah, and I think I read something a couple weeks ago what they were talking about there's a death every 11 minutes and that death is a relation to suicide.

CHUCK: 15:20

Wow, and another thing I heard about that too, Talisa is they're not allowed to report suicidal deaths on the news. It's a trigger.

Telisa Randle: 15:30

Yeah, yeah. So we talk about addictive behaviors because people think that when they talk about substance abuse, they're thinking of it's a substance. That's the addiction. But it's really not addiction. It's tied into a behavior, and so suicide can be an addiction, or the attempt of suicide can be an addiction, if you think about it from that perspective. so I don't want to call it as if that is something that is true, but I'm just saying that if you look at it from a perspective of behavior, so it could be one of the reasons why they don't say those things over the news, because there could be people that could be addicted to those attempts. It can be like I said it all starts in the brain, it all has a lot to do with the serotonin and so you just don't know. It's such a sensitive it's hard for me to even talk to you in a rational way about it right now, because that's how sensitive it is.

CHUCK: 16:29

I want to go over this list again because we live around people and sometimes we see our neighbors, we see our friends or families and we see them smile and not knowing that they're struggling mentally. So I want to go over this list again warning signs of suicidal feelings, thoughts and behavior. Because you know, saying these, these warnings we can recognize. You know, when we see different mood swings in people, we can recognize them. So I'm going to call them out real quick changing and eating and sleep habits, loss of interest in usual activities. Here's the big one, telysa. Pulling away from friends and family members, that's a big one, you know, when you isolate yourself, I believe.

Telisa Randle: 17:12

Yeah, because people worry about you. They worry about how you're thinking, how you're feeling and how you're reacting to that. You know what I'm saying. I can see that from when my brother passed away. I had so many people around me but it never occurred to me that suicide could have been at the top of one of the eight, and they were wondering that about me. Now that you said that, because it brings about loneliness, and when you come from a Christian perspective, you think about the devil, how he can play tricks on your mind.

CHUCK: 17:42

Yes.

Telisa Randle: 17:43

You know. So there's a lot of different aspects to this seasonal depression suicide and also the COVID. And you know what? Ayanna Vanselant? She said that during the COVID period. She said one of the biggest things that COVID was tied to was fear. How fear and faith cannot exist in the same place. And so it stopped me in my track when I thought about the COVID. And so I remember I was sitting on Clubhouse in the panel and I mentioned that and I said you know what? Fear and faith cannot exist in the same place. So what if we don't use that fear and faith? Well, we would say, ok, well, anxiety, anxiety is tied to fear. Right? And how do we unlearn this fear? Because I believe fear is something that has to get unlearned.

CHUCK: 18:28

Yeah.

Telisa Randle: 18:29

So how do we unlearn this fear? So, from a Christian perspective, as you face it, you can't go around and you can't go under. So when it comes to fear and faith, you have to face it. You have to get to a place where you have to flip that from that fear factor over into that confidence factor. And the only way you get to do that is to expose yourself to it. And I'm not saying expose yourself to danger or anything like that, I'm just saying that that's causing you anxiety, especially if it's something that can be helped within a certain amount of time.

CHUCK: 19:01

Here's another one, assigned to Lisa. Not caring about your personal appearance, unnecessary risk taking. Fixation on death and dying. That's deep right there. Well, you, just, you know, you just think about death all the time.

Telisa Randle: 19:16

Yeah, oh well, and that just triggered something, a memory in me. I remember one time when I was working at the counseling center and we had one of our students come in, and so we were used to her coming in there for a counseling session, looking like herself, dressing like herself. And I recall one day I was in my office and I was working and my assistant came and said hey, miss Randall, such and such is here and I think there is something wrong with her. And then I said, ok, so, but I wasn't her counselor at this particular time. I was working as an assistant director, and so so I go out, step out of my office and I looked around and I saw the client, and the client had on a hospital gown and it's like they just came from the hospital. And then I looked down and they didn't have any shoes on it, just had socks. And I said you know, hey, how are you doing today? Hey, do me a favor, let's kind of step over here into the room and let's see what's going on. Is that OK? And they say yeah. So you know, I took them into the room because they weren't my clients. So I usually just stay in my lane when it comes to my clients. But my colleague was in the office with another client, so I sent a code text and so, you know, she stepped away for a second from her door but she just, you know, had it cracked a little bit and I whispered to her that the appearance that I was getting, and so she told me to go ahead and do a quick assessment with her. And so, as I was looking at her and I said, well, where did you come from, because you know this is not your normal appearance, and then they told me they had just come from the hospital. They said they had checked themselves into one of the psychiatric hospitals and I said, oh, ok, I see. And I said, so how did you get here from the hospital? And they said they walked. And so we just, you know, just having general conversation, did the assessment see where they were in their mental capacity? And that was an actual client. That was suicidal attempts. She has already made some attempts and the assumption is that maybe that was, something had happened and it caused her to come over there in the way that she was looking. And so, the long story short, fast forward in the assessment. You know, she just rambled on and some of the things that I remember hearing her say was that she had given away all her furniture, given away her clothes, took all of her money out of the bank and she made a phone call and stuff like that. So I asked her because we have to ask them this question, that's hard for us to ask, but we asked them this question Are you planning to kill yourself? And she said yeah. And I said so, what's your plan? And so she gave the plan. And so you know that was a part of that was a closing of the assessment. So I told her, I said well, just have a seat. And I said Dr Such and such would be with you shortly. Are you going to be okay sitting right in here? Do you want me to sit with you? Are you okay? You're going to be okay, sit here by yourself and wait on her. And they just said I can sit and wait. And so pull the door up, left it open and told the assistant that keep an eye on that door. If that door moves or if you see that client moves out of that spot, I need you to come right here in my office and grab me. So and it was not my client. So all we can do at that particular point is to just keep an eye on them. And then so gap with my colleague. We talked about it, we talked about my assessment, and we both definitely agree with each other we're going to have to send them back to the hospital, and so that's what we did. I'm not sure what happened after that, but you know, just when you talk about warning signs and symptoms, some of it is what I'm basically saying to you is very obvious to the eye.

CHUCK: 22:47

We're talking about. You know the suicidal thoughts. We're talking about depression. We're talking about grieving. So what are some treatments that we can do to prevent taking it further, Like taking your own life? What are some things we can do?

Telisa Randle: 23:02

Yeah, so one of the things that I do with all clients when it comes to even getting the diagnosis and trying to see how severe that diagnosis is after doing the assessments and stuff with them, is one thing that I like to do. I like to check their coping mechanism. How have you been coping? Let's talk about these words. And so I have these words and we look at these words and I say circle, which words you think that identifies with how you've been coping? And they were circling, and then we would talk about those coping mechanisms and then I'll do like an anxiety assessment with them to see where they are in their anxiety, the level of it, because sometimes suicide is not always calm, you know. And so you just got to know what to use, when to use and how to use. And all I know is from my experience is what I use and what works for me when it comes to my clients and when my clients come to me and know who they are and where they are in their mental illness. So, it all depends, However. So one of the big things that we talked about earlier is learning those fears, that anxiety of it and stuff like that, and so we talk about the treatment right, and we say there are some severe symptoms like the one like I just talked to you about, and sometimes one of the things we got to think about in that treatment of it is the diagnosis that they have. They might not just have major depression, they might have bipolar, or they might have mood disorder or they might have manic depression. It just depends on what those symptoms are and what those diagnosis are and from the relationship that we have with our clients as a therapist. So I'm speaking from a therapist's perspective. If a client comes into my office, so I'm not speaking from if you're at home in your room and the person who commits suicide is downstairs from you. So I'm not talking about from that perspective, I'm just talking about from a therapeutic perspective. One of the things they talk about is this light therapy, because it seems like the light therapy does something with the hormones and the melatonin, because when it's down and it's low it causes drowsiness, but when you put the light on it it seems to wake it up a little bit, it seems to push it. You know, and also taking the anti-depression is another thing that could be another treatment for. But I want to touch that unfair thing unlearning those fears and those anxiety because those could be part of the treatment plan. Those could be things where you help a client see from a different perspective when it comes to having those anxiety, because facing anxiety that as a former treatment involves confronting and gradually exposing yourself to the situation or that that stimuli that trigger that anxiety right, and that we do that with the goal of helping them to reduce their fear response. But that doesn't happen overnight, it happens over time, and so the therapeutic approach is known as called exposure therapy and we often use those in treatment for various anxiety disorders, right, and so a lot of times that kind of helps the person to help them understand, not avoid it, help them to gradually face those feared situations, and that could be a way that they can learn to manage those reactions. Because then we intentionally talking about it, we intentionally exposing ourselves to in conversation how we do it, and we're also re-desensitizing systematically.

CHUCK: 26:32

You mentioned something about bipolar. Talk about that, please. What does that mean?

Telisa Randle: 26:38

Oh Lord, so bipolar.

CHUCK: 26:41

Yeah, talk about that.

Telisa Randle: 26:42

Yeah, bipolar, that is another thing that seems to be something that people wear on their sleeves Right, and bipolar has its own historical factors and its own historical myths and facts Sound like you just go from one extreme to the other. Yeah, it does have mood swings. You can be in the mood, you can be energetic or you can be thinking, and bipolar can affect all of that. It's kind of like a tricky one for me as a therapist because I was kind of like in denial of that bipolar diagnosis and so I had to dive a little bit more into it and get to know a little bit more about it, to understand the other person and understand their feelings and what they were going through and so how bipolar affects us. Here are some symptoms of the high and lows of bipolar, because it is the I or it could be a low Right. Okay, and it's also known as a form of depressive episode. Right, when you're low, you can feel sad, or you could feel hopeless, or you can feel that loss of pleasure same symptoms, right. But then when you're high, you're kind of manic, you're impulsive, irritable, you're acting abnormal, your energy is increased, and so when you see people you know that are like that, the first thing that come to your head is man. It sounds like that person might be bipolar, you know, because it has an up and it has a down. Yeah, you know so.

CHUCK: 28:24

So like similar to depression, though you know.

Telisa Randle: 28:27

Yeah, it definitely has similar symptoms. And a lot of times I find myself undiagnosed by polar too. Because once I learn a person's coping mechanisms and we do like a personality scale and I'll probably run an anxiety one with them and then check their self-awareness to see where they are as far as their self-awareness is concerned Sometime I say, well, you know what? This one might not be bipolar, it just might be, you know, more of a major depression, more on that side than anything. You know, this person might just be manic just because they got out of a relationship. So that manic part comes out, you know. But once they get past that emotional part of that relationship and go on to their smooth self, and I said, that doesn't really sound like bipolar to me, it just sounded like somebody growing, changing in development, A lot of young folks growing, changing in development, you know. But that's my own personal opinion, so the bipolar specialists don't come after me.

CHUCK: 29:25

So it's a whole lot going on mentally. It's a whole lot going on in the mind and what I'm hearing is it all boils down to how I think about myself, or what I feel about myself. Do I feel like I have value? Yeah, it's all about fear.

Telisa Randle: 29:42

Yeah, it's like it's all tied to fear and fear has to be unlearned. And one way that you can unlearn that fear and anxiety is going through a transformation in your journey. You know it requires for you to be patient. You got to have self-compassion for yourself. You have to be committed to your personal growth, because one thing I tell my clients is that you have to be intentional in your healing, because you know I'm just a facilitator to your healing. I can help guide you to get that healing some tools and some techniques but you have to actually emotionally be there in your healing. You have to align with your reality of what's going on in your life so that you can challenge those irrational thoughts and beliefs and start questioning the validity of it you know what I'm saying and try to replace those with more of a positive perspective. So, like I said, that as a therapist my only job is to facilitate you as you go through your journey, help you to and break your mindfulness of it and to help you with. You know meditation and techniques that I know for myself that I that I utilize in my own depression, I utilize in my own stress, you know I utilize in my own focus and awareness and taking those breaks and self-care in for myself. So those are things that almost with anybody, that we have to help them, you know, learn about those things and those coping mechanisms. They are there because of triggers, the trigger of fear, and when you see that they have self-harming coping mechanism, you start going at it with them and say, hey, what I'm seeing here and for what you're telling me, it looks like this coping mechanism that you circled is a self-harming coping mechanism. Let's talk about that and let's see how you feel about that and let's see if we can see that from a different perspective and find out why that trigger is here and how long that trigger has been here and what can we do or what kind of techniques that will help you alleviate or minimize that mechanism.

CHUCK: 31:45

Wow, what an amazing conversation. What an amazing conversation we moved around, but I believe we touched on some major thoughts that people can have something to think about. You know, some warning signs, some treatment how do we get through these holidays doing things given in Christmas time mentally, you know, being emotionally stable?

Telisa Randle: 32:06

Yeah, because it is a lot that can be said. I will say, as a big, big, big form of treatment is this surround yourself with supportive and understanding people who can often encourage you. And so one thing I can say about a little bit about social media when you get encouraging and get those groups that are very encouraging to you, sometimes it saves your life. And then also as a form of treatment, is to make sure you're seeking professional guidance, make sure that you're in therapy, you're in counseling and exploring the root cause of that fear and that anxiety and develop some effective coping strategies. Because we talk about coping mechanisms, but then we talk about coping strategies because, like I said earlier, as you identify that coping mechanism, you can also identify a strategy that can help you cope while you get through that coping mechanism, which is one of the triggers that causes to come, and sometimes your coping mechanism can go from childhood all the way to adulthood until somebody brings it into awareness. So just remembering those things, just remember unlearning your fear and anxiety is a process and celebrate all the small victory. That's one thing I do focus on with clients is when there is a victory, I identify with the victory. I try not to go into the set backs. I try to just look at the good side of it and I say, well, you know what, with everything that you've been through, there is a good side. You want to talk about it. And then we talk about the good side, and then we talk about having an approach to redeveloping and redirecting your mindset and self-discovery, and so that's why a lot of retreats are out here, because it helps you with those type of things. I think that's such a true blessing here on earth, and there's four words that I always say to clients there is purpose, resiliency, sacrifice and surrender. And we use the yellow brick road and the red brick road so, as we go through our process of unlearning our fears and our anxiety, to help us understand where this major depression is coming from, where these suicidal attempts may have occurred, those things that trigger you in hoping and pray that you take those things and have that self-awareness and try to stand strong on your own two feet.

CHUCK: 34:27

I want to add something to the yellow brick road. First of all, pray, talk to God about your situation.

Telisa Randle: 34:33

That's the source.

CHUCK: 34:34

That's the source. That's the main source. You know how we're going to get through and then find some professional help, like a therapist, like Telysa, to talk to and again, surround yourself with friends if you can.

Telisa Randle: 34:46

And counselors are starting to dive back into Christianity side of therapy because the world is paying attention to the need of counseling, trying to find a spiritual connection from somewhere. So I believe that counselors are really thinking from that perspective of Christianity or belief or spirituality or religious, because the clients are really looking for it.

CHUCK: 35:07

They really are some hope. Yes, some hope yeah.

Telisa Randle: 35:10

And praying is definitely one of the things that do come up for sure and putting yourself in the pomegous hand. I'm always saying, you know, because you jump in the pomegous hand, you know that story that talks about, well, we see one set of footprint that's God carrying you. So sometimes, when they come in we talk about the Christianity of what we're going through. I always say, do you mind if I can put you in the pomegous hand so we can carry you, because it seems and it feels as if you need some carrying, and allow him to carry you through this as you get to a place where you're learning to rethink the way you think about what's going on in your life.

CHUCK: 35:47

Wow, thank you so much and I'm going to leave you with this the listening audience. Hey, you're valuable. People need your life out here, you know. Think about it, love yourself, love who you are and appreciate who you are. That's right.

Telisa Randle: 36:01

And just one more thing, because I wouldn't be a counselor without telling people to utilize those crisis services to 988, suicide and crisis life, the veterans Christ line, and then there's a crisis text line. So just make sure you guys are always utilizing those things when you're having those thoughts of suicide.

CHUCK: 36:22

Absolutely. Thank you so much to Lisa for being a part of let's just talk about the podcast. We'll be back next month for another episode with Telysa Randall. Talk to you soon. Wow, what an amazing conversation. Shout out to my friend Telysa for having this dialogue with me. You know this is a real serious issue that cannot be ignored, the mental struggle that many people are having due to various reasons. But I believe we can all work together to change the situation, first by prayer and then by speaking positive words to people we know who may be going through a traumatic season in their lives, because our words have power to lift the person up. So let's be an encouragement to one another, doing this holiday season and beyond, as always. Thank you so much for tuning in to let's just talk about a podcast and please check out my website Just Google let's just talk about a podcastcom and then hit that subscribe button to receive all the new episodes every Friday. You can also find me on Facebook. Just type in Chuck L J, t a I, which means let's just talk about it. So, as always, until next time, don't hold it in, but let's just talk about it. Talk to you soon.