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Michael Woody's journey from a tumultuous childhood to finding hope and strength beyond bars is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit. As I spoke with Michael to unravel the layers of his life story, we traversed the gritty truths of growing up amidst constant change in the Washington DC area and how it became a backbone for his survival through a challenging incarceration. Our conversation, filled with raw emotion and stark honesty, paints a vivid picture of the struggles faced by many young people today, emphasizing the dire need for emotional management skills that can redirect the course of one's life.
The echoes of the war on drugs reverberate through our discussion, touching on the deep-seated implications of Mass incarceration on communities, particularly those of African American descent. We shed light on the historical context and the ensuing cycle that ensnares the youth, inspired by insights from Michelle Alexander's "The New Jim Crow." In a narrative interwoven with personal stories and mentorship experiences, Michael and I share the profound impact of self-awareness and the beacon of hope that mentorship can offer to those navigating the systemic snare of our justice system.
As Michael Woody steps into the conversation, we celebrate the transformative power of self-discipline and persistence in charting a new path. From the disciplined routine of making one's bed each morning to the unwavering resolve echoed in Napoleon Hill's wisdom, our dialogue affirms that positive daily habits and routines lay the foundation for a triumphant return to society. Michael Woody's ventures, including his clothing line and poetry book 'Reflections of Reality', serve as inspiring examples of how one can ignite hope and cultivate a legacy of change, demonstrating that no matter how daunting the darkness, there is always a path to brighter days.
Hey, welcome back to another episode of Lets Just Talk About It Podcast. I'm your host, Chuck, and if you're here for the first time, this platform was created to give genuine people just like you an opportunity to share a portion of your life's journey. So, with that being said, on this episode, I have Michael Woody on with me today, where he shares how it was growing up in the Washington DC area and life after incarceration as a reform man. So, hey, you don't want to miss this amazing conversation today. As a matter of fact, do me a favor go and grab your husband, your wife, your children, or even call a friend and gather around to listen to my conversation with Michael on Lets Just Talk About It Podcast. Hey, let's jump right in.
Welcome back to another episode of Lets Just Talk About it podcast Today. I have Mr. Michael Woody on with me today. Man, thank you so much for being a part of Lets Just Talk About it podcast. Thank you for having me, chuck. Thank you for having me, absolutely, man. Mike, I love to jump right into my conversations, to have genuine conversations, man, with genuine people just like yourself. And I love to start with this question when are you from?
You know I was born and raised in Washington DC and so you know from that experience brought some instability to where I moved around a lot in my childhood, but predominantly I live in the DMV area. Wow, had a chance to live in Maryland on a couple of occasions but we moved around quite a lot.
Got you man. How was that man growing up in DC Moving around?
You know, as I look back right going through it, I didn't really understand, to a lost degree, how I was being affected. Got you, I do know that once you get settled in a place, you know you meet people, you be friend people, you meet friends, right, and then before you know it, you move it. Yeah, you being uprooted, and so some of those bonds of friendship is being severed. So you begin to lose, you know, you kind of lose that, and so now you begin to feel that you just don't know in which ways it's affecting you. You know, and then I guess I'll add this too I think that at once, since I think I got accustomed to, or at least I didn't notice until later on, that me moving a lot benefited me for what I would be faced with later on in life I didn't know at that time that that instability came in handy, if I could say it that way.
Yeah, like moving around and help you in the long run. Yep, and you talk about that now is it too early.
I mean, yeah, I'll say it right, I think I can bounce back and forth.
I think, that me moving around a lot, not knowing that when I turn 20 I will be, you know, sentenced to a very long prison term, right 52 years of life, and so life on the inside consists of no stability at once. That's right Meaning, yeah, you don't remain in one location for a very long period of time, and so getting used to being able to have to adapt and adjust in a new environment. It's like my childhood became like a dress rehearsal for what I would experience later on in life, as it relates to not being in a permanent spot, adapted and adjusted to my environment. So I'll say it from that way.
That's deep, mike. I never heard it put that way in terms of being uprooted. It helped you adjust to the movement you know, going from camp to camp, that type of thing. Yeah, let's go backwards. Then you talked about you were sentenced to a lengthy sentence. Man, take us there. You know what brought you to that sentence, man. You never know who's listening Some young guy man. So you may be helping somebody to avoid the places that you know you went to.
Yeah, I was sad. I guess I reached upon my life with at that moment right, the act that led to me taking someone's life right Got you. It was a number of things that I think that came to a head, that I didn't realize how I was being affected, how my upbringing, how my environment was affected me. I had a loss of my father at the age of 13. Childhood friends and, just you know, dealing with relatives who were suffering from substance abuse Got you. And just going through this instability period to where I became alienated from my own humanity, to the point where I just was in this space that I didn't know how I got there, let alone knew how to ask for help. And I think it was just one of those reaction, or I would say like something that triggered or provoked. Not having the ability to self-regulate or control led to an unfortunate situation that I will never minimize or diminish. How valuable life is and if I could align the hands of time, I most definitely would change it Will have done something different, absolutely, man.
So you got to that place where those emotions got the best of you. Yep, yeah, do you think that's what's going on with our youth today? Because it's a lot of that going on right now, man. So you think not being able to manage the emotional part?
Yeah, so it's like people are, especially the youth, right? I know how, like you one, you did them with human nature, right, and then you did them with a youth adolescent going through these changes, a lot of chemical reactions going on you going through this process, you try to self-identify, you become itself aware, you know you're affected by peer pressure, you know. And so now you, you're wrestling with a lot of this trauma that leads to frustration, anger, and you don't know how to express that. It's not being dealt with. So a lot of time it deals up and you unleash.
And then now, when you create a situation where you create this opposition or this so-called rivalry or these those over there and us over here, and so now you know each one of either side of that dynamic is dealing with some of the same stuff. And so now you create a situation where they are at odds. And now you know, filtering things through the lens of toxic masculinity or what they think a man is, or what they think how you supposed to go about addressing certain things. And when you are alienated from your own humanity, you got little to no value on your own life. There's no way that you're going to be able to place value on the person that's on the opposite side that you see as a opp or as you, however you see them. So it's like a mess, right, you know.
And so, of course, what you saying, like you know a lot of it has to do with, you know, attitudes, tempers playing, not being able to regulate, and then you suppressing some of the stuff that you're dealing with by medicating yourself, self-medicating, but you're not really getting to the root of the problem. And they dealing with the same stuff that every other individual find themselves. Yeah, you lost the life and parents not being raised by biological parents. If it holds you off, maybe you know you only have one parent. You know one, you know of your parents in your life.
You know I'm saying so. You know it's just a combination of so many things, but um, yeah, wow.
So seeing that now out here, man, it's like more so than ever. Do you think we can fix the problem that we're seeing without you phone the outside now? Is it fixable to you? You know what I mean? Because it seems like it's just out of control, you know?
yeah, young people, yeah it's like this, right, mm-hmm, I'll answer that this way because and I just had a conversation with someone who's running for councilman and we had a conversation along these, these, these lines, and so, like one of the things that I said, I'm gonna say it now, and so I'll say this, right, I say that if we don't address the underlying social ills that continues to play and has been plaguing these different communities for over a half of century I said a half a century from now, another 50 years whoever the city councilman who are in place at that time will be addressing these same issues.
Because the reality is that it's like these underlying issues gave birth to a mindset right which created a mentality and created a culture. And so this perpetuated cycle of low value on life, not caring, coming from a not only a poverty situation but a poverty mindset, and faced with all these other factors economically and these other things that affects the individual, all these social underlying factors, not having the right social buffers, you know, a large part of not being raised by and being nurtured and cultivated in a productive, positive environment by both biological pairs, like all this stuff helps to create a disc equilibrium that shows up a toxic environment. So man is a culture, you know saying, and so the culture it breeds the same type of mentality. So if you, but we know we got to look at what went into creating the culture you see them saying and then now you you be able to, you know, address it from those points. But it's multi-layered and we didn't get here overnight so it ain't gonna go away overnight.
You know what I'm saying. I like that. It's not going way overnight.
And so now, you know, a knee jerk reaction is okay, well, let's get tough. Yeah, let's lock them up, yeah. But guess what? That same approach is the same thing that helped create a instability and a disc equilibrium in the community by removing the father, so, so, so you doing is lining up for the next generation to go through the same thing by every. I mean so it's a perpetuated cycle. You know I'm saying so. It's like it's almost ongoing. I've had this conversation in multiple times. We already know that you can't incarcerate our way out of this problem, like they can't take that stance, that we're gonna lock you up and think that that's gonna do away with it. We're gonna put you on time out. You put the person on time out, but you ain't addressing the issue. I say, man, for lack of better words, it's like putting a bandaid over gunshot boom, it's not gonna stop the bleeding it's gonna bleed out eventually.
Yeah, still bleed out because I look at it like this. I like to say you know they talk about, you know the war on drugs, you know Michelle Alexander, her book, the new Jim Crow, very insightful book. She connects a lot of that's. But I was gonna say this is that man, you know the war on drug or a gay birth to mass incarceration, right? So mass incarceration is the collateral consequences or the collateral damage from the war on drugs. That was that was initiated and cleared in AIDS.
I want you to talk about that man For people who don't understand what you just said.
Yeah, yeah, so I was going to step forward, right. So in 1971, the Richard Nixon administration coined the term war drugs. 10 years later, in 1981, the Ronald Reagan administration actually turned it into a literal war, right. So, meaning that the way they were addressing things, man, they did it from that standpoint. And so we know that, right there led to the alarming, ballooning prison population known as mass incarceration right.
But your own wars bring collateral damage, right. And so now, in this case, I speak straight from the words of a criminologist and sociologist by the name of David Kennedy. He said that the crack epidemic blew through the black communities like the full horsemen of the apocalypse, right. And then you had another one who said this he said it was as if the full horsemen traded their steeds in for supercharged bulldozers. So when you think about that, right, when you really weigh that we already know, a bulldozer is used to deconstruct, to tear down a structure that's there so it can pave the way to create something new.
So when you think about it, he described the war on drugs and he said that it was as if the full horsemen traded their steeds in for supercharged bulldozers. And what that brought about, was it brought about the destruction of the family unit. It turned communities against one another. It created this culture that we see right now. That's continuing to breed and give birth to a mindset and a mentality that still exists and you talk about. It's been over 50 years since that war on drugs was first declared, over a trillion dollars spent, but we still dealing with the collateral consequences and the damage and the same issues that was left behind from that era.
Yeah, I wanted you to explain it, man, because a lot of people don't know where it came from or how it started. You know what I mean. So thank you for that. Thank you for sharing that, man. Yeah, yeah. So what would you say to a young man right now if you had the opportunity? What you do all the time? What do you say to him when you got one-on-one conversations?
Hey, look, this, like you know, probably is, as they say, or divine right. I just literally left, maybe 45 minutes ago, outside of DC jail, right, and it's a program unit called, you know, young Mid-Emergence right, one of the. It's a unit as a mentor program that I had a chance to found to be one of the founder mentors when I was on the inside before I got released after serving 25 years of a 52 year life sentence, right, and so I started that program and three weeks after I was released, they hired me to go back inside as a program manager Inside of the unit, and so come March, the 15th, it'll be a full year since I walked away from the job and so I no longer work, but I still continue to be actively involved and helping, you know, the young guys that you know they reach out to me all the time and I'm still mentoring from a different standpoint, right, and I goes in from time to time, but literally 45 minutes ago I left up out of it, right. So to your question, what would I say to the younger guys, or younger me, I can give you the topic because we went in, so we went in, right, and some young guys who they heard a lot about me. They haven't had a chance to meet me and it's something that still did, that was there when I was working there, right. It's even one who was there when I was actually incarcerated, right.
So, anyway, I'm gonna give you this right, since we were on the heels of a Black History Month and I started the conversation all with them, that I asked them a question, but then I gave them a quote, right, and this quote come from Carter G Woodson, and we know Carter G Woodson is the father of Black History Month. So this quote that I gave them, I'll share it for whoever it is. This may fall on, but it's a very powerful quote that can really help an individual orientate themselves in time and space, but I mean by that they can really look at where they are at, where they stand in their life, where they stand as an individual on this planet, and who are you and what are some of the things that's important that you should be focused on and how you should be moving forward, right? So I started writing it on the board and then I had got to a point. Because they got a dry race board, I started writing it up there and I forgot, like the last sentence, right, but anyway it goes like this, right, say if you can control a man's thinking, you do not have to worry about his action. When you determine what a man should think, you do not have to concern yourself about what he will do. If you make a man feel that he is inferior, you do not have to compel him to accept inferior status for he was seeking himself. If you make a man think that he is justly an outcast, you do not have to order him to the back door. He will go without being told. And if there is no back door, it is very nature with the man one.
So we started the conversation like that right. So now, of course, this right here led to other things, right, it led to other conversations and other statements made about other prominent people in the past, in history or whatever, right. And so when I was trying to get them to see because I started talking about, like I say, you know your thoughts I said why are you in here? You need to feed your mind, right? I said in order to shift your paradigm, in order for you to begin to do things different, see things different, and if you're looking for more possibility and you want to do something different. You have to feed your mind right, and so I was giving them an example on how our thoughts become words.
Our words become actions our actions become habits and our habits become character and our character determines our destiny. And as I kept putting emphasis on I say that we gotta understand that at some point we gotta know how to be self accountable and hold ourselves responsible and be responsible and I said all stars by the decisions that we make. It all starts by learning how to think in real time to make sound decisions right. And so, therefore, you gotta have some routine, you gotta be able to have some habits, some good habits, some discipline. Oh, we talking about the discipline. Yeah, you spaddle. So you are a little so sad. You said I'm saying right. So I asked him. I said how many of y'all made y'all bed up to date? Most of them said they did. Two of them said they didn't.
I said okay, well, even for the ones who didn't, I said the reason why I pointed that out. I said because that's something that you got to come in contact with every day. You got to lay in it and you got to get out of it. Right, I said. But I wanted to illustrate a point. I said that how do you unleash the power of self discipline? Through habit and you develop habit through repetition. Repetition is the mother of all teachers. So if you can take something simple where it's making sure that you make your bed up every day it ain't necessarily got to be that For the ones who hopped out their bed and they make it up then you can find something else that you can routinely do on a consistent basis and therefore you can create good habits, because not only do you have habits and actions, you have habits and thinking right.
I said because guess what, I don't care, when you were on this planet, context doesn't even matter. But if you develop self discipline, you can succeed at anything and really withstand anything that you encounter. So context don't even matter. It don't matter if you went out, it's applicable in all circumstances across the globe, across the globe. You know what I'm saying, because sometimes people out here ain't got a tendency to make a distinction, saying that you know, yeah, it owes, and you know, you know that old talk around that right. But, um, yeah, man, it's just. You know we had a powerful conversation.
And then, last thing I'll say to that point right there, because we've been talking about self discipline, I said man, self discipline is to do what you're supposed to do when you're supposed to do it, whether you want to or not, right, and so. So now that means you're going to be able to be consistent to accomplish a goal or a task, right. So consistency is almost the same as being persistent, right, to stay at something, to consist, to persist until you complete the key goal. So guess what man? Napoleon Hill said this about persisting, right. So at first, when I was trying to come over the court, I said man, listen, I want to share this quote with y'all. I said, but it's slipping my mind. I said I know part of it, but I don't want to say it until I know all of it. Right, so I'm going to use my real quick and hit my mind, right, it hit my mind. So I told.
I came back out to listen. I remember the quote, right. And it says it says there may be no heroic connotation to the word persistent, other than the word is to the character of man. With carbon is to steal man, you almost create an unstoppable wheel because really can't understand up against a wheel that's persistent. You can rest assured because, man not already shown, we can call through mountains when you persisted, like some. Some hell of a goals can be accomplished and some hell of a thing can be obtained when you persisted. So imagine when you direct that power to your life purpose, to doing something positive.
Wow, you see what I'm saying. That's the whole message that I was trying to get him to see that this is the power that you will wheel that's being equated to steal, which is one of the strongest metals known to man, which we use to build all these structures that helps give stability. You know what I'm saying To these places that we dwell. Institutions are otherwise right, because institutions ain't this institution dealing with government or managing bodies. You know what I'm saying. You, all those government buildings downtown is an institution. You know what I'm saying. So my point is that you know, equating that quality to steal and knowing that that's something we can reach based on being consistent and persistent and having the self discipline to pursue a goal or a task at hand, you damn it can be stopped when you put that emotion Wow.
I love it man.
Yeah, man, we went in. I mean, man, I love them young dudes, see, because, like I told them right, yeah, I said this. I said, like why y'all think I came back? I said I ain't had to come back, I can be doing anything.
Right.
But I understand that what I went through being wider weight in that process right and being proactive in my own process of evolution and I understood that early on, in real time, when we were shaping that space behind me, I understood that they stood the benefit from it. Because I'm looking at things generationally and spiritually and I know that man, that somebody has to be the one to be able to deliver that. It's powerful, give that enlightenment because it's beyond me. That's why I say it's generational, it's because I understand that and I got to act in accord with that understanding. You know what I'm saying. So, like I told them, I said that's why I'm here. You know what I'm saying.
Like I know y'all got benefit from this. Like I say to your point, with the question you asked, this is the conversation that I have with young dudes and, for real, if I had to answer that question to myself, man, I wish I had somebody. Man that was shot on all four corners, like, like, like. Like I've grown to be now, which I hear from you. Know I get compliments from people or whatever, right, but to be able to man, break things down and connect, that's like this.
Having that heart, man, because we've been on the other side, you know you can identify what those emotions and what they thinking about, man. So they really be like listening to you, looking at you, like when you yeah, I like that man looking at your eyes.
Yup, yup, yup and that and you and that's what you see, like, like, because they can feel it and they know what somebody's getting on, some law and something you know and you able to break it down, so they know, and they shop, they shop. So you don't say so, they got to give it, they got to give it, man, and that's all you, that's all really you can ask for is just give it long enough. I ain't looking for no 360. See, I think realistic. That's why I say generational, spiritual, see, because I ain't looking for 360 in a short period of time. See, one thing I realized is that sometimes, in some cases, man, you know, we may not see the fruits of our tall, which means we may not see the effects of what we do, and I like time.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, but one thing I do know is we download stuff in there DNA that dead kids, kids benefit from. You know what I'm saying. If you are awarded and rewarded with an opportunity to see the effects of something that you said emotion in real time, why you still here Then, man, that's a beauty and a blessing.
You know what I'm saying. Yeah, wow, mike. So you did 25 years man. Yeah, 25 years man, wow. You lose a lot, you know, doing that that period of time, and you gain a lot, you learn, you become a man, you know, mm, hmm, Wow. So let me ask you this man, you can go back I love to ask this question. You can go back to the younger Mike, the 10 year old Mike. What would you say to him, man, to prepare him for the day or give him some type of encouragement or something?
If I look at like, if I reflect back, how I was and how I saw things and how I was moving right, I would say that all storms should pass or all storms will pass, right Got you. And I would say that because I realized, man, like those moments in life which seems like an eternity at times, when you face with decisions or you face with whatever outside, external pressure, whatever form is coming in, when you face with that, those moments be seeming like like eternity and not knowing, not knowing a lay down and a wake up, man, it might be a little more different and you might be in a better position to manage whatever you face with. But the whole key of driving home that point to a younger Michael is to be able to see that there's light on the other side, that once these clouds go away, that sun going to shine.
Like this moment don't got to turn into forever, or this moment ain't got to turn into a lifetime, or this moment ain't got to turn into decades. You know what I'm saying. So the way a person mind is working like time is different. And so now, if you can be told in hopes that you can grasp the ability to endure, you know you're in a better position to let that storm pass. And, man, I think you will come out on a better end or happier outcome than if you move too soon. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, that's the advice I give you. Yeah, yeah.
So telling young self this trouble right here is not going to last forever. Yeah, man, I like that. Yeah, I like that.
And whatever challenges and decisions that you face with, like this ain't got to be the end or be old you know what I'm saying Like it's something after this. So that's the whole key being able to look past what's in front of you, being able to think past what's in front of you, being able to be hopeful past what's in front of you, because a lot of times we get caught up with right there in front of us that's sitting there.
So why don't let us exist? Yeah, I like that man. So, michael Woody, if somebody was to ask about you, who is Michael Woody today, the man you've become today?
You know, michael Woody today is one who was a visionary, who understands that being able to have that ability to see down the line, you know, it's almost like you know. You know what I say with great power comes with responsibility, right. So knowledge is power, right. Knowledge is also awareness enlightenment, and so having that ability to be able to see right, it puts you somewhat in a leadership role and, as they say, leaders see more than others, before others, and further than others. Right, so I see myself as a leader. A leader and someone who cares and want to contribute and be able to serve. Right, being able to serve in a sense that being able to help. Right. Like so my clothing brand making a difference every day. Right, making a difference every day really entails just being able to understand that service is the rent you pay for the space you occupy while on this earth.
Right, Hold up, man. Say that one more time. You're talking good. Say that one more time.
Yeah, so so check like it's like. So to me, man, make it a difference every day may. Which stands for making a difference every day entails understanding right. It entails understanding that service is the rent you pay for the space you occupy while on this earth, right, and so what that looks like. It don't take much to contribute to the harmonious environment of your community, your city, your town, your state, your country. You know your society like right. So it don't take a whole lot because you can do some simple as holding the door open for the elder.
I like that man, you know what I'm saying, or you know, a smile, a hood, a handshake, like that stuff go a long way for people. So it's like it don't take a whole lot to contribute and do your part. So it can be simple but nevertheless it can be impactful and can go a long way. So I embody that and so that's a part of who I am like, knowing that I can contribute in small ways and impactful ways. Sometimes it may be it may be in big ways, but but but that's who Michael Woody is.
Man is somebody who, who contributes to, to the harmonious functioning of mind frame which, yeah, but we all interconnected, so that means it affects people, places and things above and beyond me, got you and my immediate circumstances, whatever that may be. So you know, and, um, you know, I'm also a person who loves to be outdoors, I love exercising, I love learning. I refer to myself as a student of life. I'm always trying to absorb information and just be in the know and just do my part and show up and continue to become a better version of who I am and stay proactive in my own process of evolution. That's who Michael Woody is today, wow.
You an amazing brother man. You an amazing guy, man. I appreciate you bro. Man, you talked about a clothing line. Shout that out, man. If people want to purchase a shirt or whatever, shout your social media out.
Yeah, yeah, my Instagram is MichaelDWoodie14. You, the most definitely hit me up and we figure out how. What I may have is stuck to be able to get you some of this maid wear that's going to take off. I'm pushing that energy and I'm in the incubator stages and I'm still getting some things together. I got some stuff on hand now, but I got another line or version of some t-shirts and some hoodies. I should have those available for the next week or so. But, yeah, doing that.
I got a podcast that I did with a good friend of mine, Joe Castone. It's called Life Out the Life. Wow, we got four episodes. That's getting ready. Should be already uploaded on Shopify, but we work on some things to get that available. Doing that and just active, Like I'm with Peace for DC Peace Academy. That's a two day training session during the week where I'm doing that, working with another good friend or some consulting things Fernando Smith, we doing some things together. But yeah, that's just the name of few. Oh, I got a shit. I got a shit. It is. We just met with a professor me and Joel of Iles professor at Georgetown. He was teaching music and the power of sound and how sound affects costume spaces and things like that. So we co-authored a paper in collaboration with a university in Norway and so we had a meeting yesterday over pizza and we was going in on some things, but just trying to stay busy, stay busy and stay active and doing something positive.
Yeah, I want to say this, man, To those who are listening everybody in prison. Dependent entry is not bad. We just made a mistake. And Michael Woody is evidence that you can come out and be successful, that there are good men and women inside those walls. That's what I want to end with, man.
Thanks bro, absolutely your evidence man. I agree with you for 100%, yes, sir.
Just need a second chance to make it happen. That's it Absolutely. I really enjoyed you, man. I love this conversation, man. I love what you're doing. Keep up the good work. Mike man, thank you for coming on and being a part of let's Just Talk About it podcast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, one last thing Go for it.
Check out for that.
I got a book of poetry Reflections of Reality. Yes, sir, you can get an autograph sign copy from it. Just hit me up. You know I got them too, but they also available on Amazon. So you know, yeah, thanks bro.
Man shout out to you, Mike, I appreciate it bro.
Yes, sir man.
Thanks again, man Appreciate you. Yeah, no problem, you're welcome.
Wow, what an amazing conversation. Shout out to Michael Woody for having this dialogue with me. You know, one of the things that really stuck out to me about this conversation, amongst many other things, was when Michael talked about what he would say to his younger self if he could, and that was that all storms were one day passed, meaning that if you can get through a tough moment in life, that there's a light on the other side of those clouds to see a better day. So shout out to you, michael, for those words. Bro, again, thank you so much for always tuning in to let's Just Talk About it podcast, and please check out my website. Just Google Let'sJustTalkAboutItPodcastcom and then hit that subscribe button to receive all the new episodes every Friday. You can also find me on Facebook. Just type in Chuck LJTAI, which means let's Just Talk About it. So, as always, until next time, don't hold it in, but let's just talk about it. Talk to you soon.
