Transcript
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Hey, welcome back to let's Just Talk About it podcast.
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I'm your host, chuck, and, if you're here for the first time, this platform was created to give genuine people just like you an opportunity to share a portion of your life's journey.
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So, with that being said, I decided to go back to the archives and pull out this amazing conversation that I had with my good friends Antonio Morgan, stephen Bethea and Chris Valentine, where we talked about our journey through the prison system and how it was when we got out of the prison system.
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So, hey, you don't want to miss this conversation today.
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As a matter of fact, do me a favor Go and grab your husband, your wife, your children, or even call a friend and gather around to listen to my conversation with Steve, chris and Tony on let's Just Talk About it podcast.
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Hey, let's jump right in.
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I have three guys who I call my brothers today on let's Just Talk About it.
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I have Tony Morgan from episode number four, I have Steve Bethea and I have Chris Valentine all my brothers and I want to thank you guys for being a part of this episode.
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Our whole friendship started at a prison called Camp 4 in Baskerville, virginia, where we all served prison time, but now we've all been blessed to have another chance to be free on the outside, and thank you guys, thank you guys.
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As always, I love to jump right into my interview, so I want to start with you, steve, to tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, in terms of where you're from and what you're up to now.
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Well, I'm originally from Newport News, virginia.
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I currently reside in Clayton, north Carolina, which is right near Clayton, and right now I work as a district manager with Pizza Hut Okay.
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What about you, Chris?
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Tell the listeners about yourself.
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I'm currently residing in Durham, north Carolina.
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I was born and raised in Henderson, north Carolina, which is about 30 minutes from here.
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I'm now a what I do for a living.
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I'm an owner-operator, I own a trucking company business and I'm trying to raise a family as well.
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That's what I'm doing now.
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Got you.
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We all know my man, Tony Morgan.
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You want to say something, Tony, about yourself again.
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Well, I'm here as a repeat visitor on your show, which I'm grateful for.
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I hail from Petersburg, virginia.
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I'm in transition between Virginia and North Carolina, pursuing my education background and also hoping to start a nonprofit, so that's what I'm in the process of doing.
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Got you, man, appreciate you guys.
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I wanted to have this particular episode because I wanted to have a real, genuine conversation with some real men, so the listening audience can know that men can have conversations too.
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So, guys, picture yourselves at a table at a restaurant.
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We're eating together, we're having a whole lot of fun.
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Man, we're just having a general conversation.
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And one of the main reasons also I wanted to have this conversation is that I'm realizing that we're losing that ability to have communication, that real communication, and therefore, as men, we tend to hold a lot of stuff in to the point that it comes out sometimes in a lot of different negative ways.
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So I want to talk about, first of all, the importance of communication.
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Can anybody speak to that?
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How important is communication to you as a man?
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Well, I'll go first.
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I think, just like women, when they get together they are able to talk about things that women go through, and men need to do the same Sometimes.
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You know, we, as men, we tend to hold our feelings in or our thought processes in because, you know, coming up we've been.
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You know, some of us have been taught not all of us, but some of us have been taught that men are always, you know, we're always the rock, we're always the strong ones, and that you know showing any signs of weakness, you know we're always the rock, we're always the strong ones, and that you know.
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Showing any signs of weakness, you know it isn't good.
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Right, you want to jump in Tone.
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Tell us what you think about communication.
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You know communication is key.
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You know that's one of the primal needs of humanity and in today's society, you know, we feel as men, that we have behind stigmas how men are supposed to be and yet there are men suffering silently, you know, because we live behind a veil of machoism.
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You know, when we come together we can take back information.
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You know that we can take back for our families, our business, our personal life, our spiritual life, and I think communication is key.
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I think men coming together and just putting it on the table, you know, allows everybody to be on an equal playing ground and say that we don't have it together, you know.
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So we're here combining information and experience to find out.
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You know, we can find some answers and solutions to what we're going through, wow.
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What, what you think, chris?
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Um, I, I concur with the guys.
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Man, I, um, you know my wife, she's a therapist.
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So you know I'm huge, yeah, I'm talking, and, um, I mean she's, she more so driven than I mean, more than more so than I used to be?
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Um, now, I, I know that sharing is so important because, um, you know, we talk about out of mind's devil workshop, yeah, but also either thoughts are as well.
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So if you really don't know what your partner we're talking about, just relationships, what they're thinking, you know you can easily um, have the wrong idea about something because you may or may not have actually expressed you know what, the real situation, what, what's really happening, right?
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So, yeah, I'm huge on communication.
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Now, man, I know when we do communicate, we can do a lot by just sharing with one another I like what you said, steve man.
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Sometimes, you know, we've been taught not to talk and we hold a lot of stuff in, so I'm learning the importance of of communication, just just just being yourself and just communicating, that you don't have to put on no airs, you don't have to be nobody else, but just be yourself and just talk.
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You know, that's where this whole thing came about.
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Um, let's just talk about it.
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Let's just talk about it because I wanted to create a platform where genuine people can come, just like you guys, and just share and talk about real life issues, you know.
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So that's what this whole platform is about, man.
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So again, I thank you guys.
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So I have a lot of conversations about the experience of a prison.
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So, chris, tell me your experience, how you got to that prison term, what led me to committing a crime.
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Yeah, that's basically what you yeah.
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Well, man, I would say um more of uh influence right than anything else.
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Um, I was brought up in a pretty good upbringing yeah I'm single parent but father lived down the street.
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You know, I had grandparents, I had people that supported me.
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I I had a good environment that I raised up in.
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However, because of some friends and more peer pressure and, um, I I was I won't necessarily say fitting in because I was already a part of a group, but I was more swayed when I started seeing what the guys were doing, you know, as far as from hustling to robbing, to just the money, and I felt like I could get away with it because they were getting away with it.
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And then I tried it with them because they kept saying, man, it's easy money.
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So I tried that and we got away with it a few times and after that, ultimately, you know, we got, we got, we got caught, got arrested and you know that's a whole, nother long story.
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But, that's how.
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That's how I happened.
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How much time did you do?
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I did 13 years and 10 months.
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Got you Almost 14 years, wow.
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Hey Steve, if you don't mind, tell the listening audience how you know you ended up in Camp 4 with all the rest of us.
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Well, hey, you know, the thing is like Chris said.
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There's a lot of myths that you know.
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Most people that come to prison they sort of had like a uh, they came up in a rough upbringing, right you know, just like chris, you know I was brought up by a single mother and you know she taught me right from wrong.
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You know, and, um, you know, eventually you get out there and you know you're going to start experiencing and experimenting with, uh, different things and you need new people and and you know people have, uh, certain influences on you with me.
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You know I was more so dealing with the white collar crimes, stuff like that.
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I did some breaking some, some what they call bne's, breaking the entrance and you know, forging some checks and stuff like that.
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And you know, just like most you know young men, you know you get away with it once and get away with it twice.
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So you think you know, you think you're kind of untouchable, so you know I just kept doing it and then eventually I end up getting caught and you know the rest is history.
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You know, but I I do like what chris said you know about his upbringing, because every, all of us, or all people that that you know come become incarcerated don't always come up in a rough upbringing.
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Yeah, it's not always like that, but you know the world or the society would like to believe that.
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So you know I ended up doing almost eight and a half years before I got I was blessed.
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Before I got out I was able to get go on work release.
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But time is time when you don't have, you know, all of your freedom.
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But you know, that's how I became involved.
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Your turn, tony, how you know all of your freedom.
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But you know that's how I became involved.
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Your turn, tony.
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How did you get to Camp 4?
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You know that's an eclectic question because I'm going to base it on a truth.
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You know, for me it was ignorance.
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You know, ignorance got me there to Camp 4.
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Ignorance continued two years later when I went to prison again for another seven and a half years.
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You know, I listened to the gentleman that came before my brothers and we talk about influence.
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The biggest thing was the ignorance to what happens after you commit a crime.
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You can get so engulfed on trying to stay in the void of the police and getting your money whatever way you can.
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But I was ignorant about what was going to happen in the courtroom, ignorant about lawyers, ignorant about the law.
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I was ignorant, you know, and it was to the point that there were people trying to tell me, but I refused to listen.
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So it led me to making choices based upon my ignorance and that's what landed me in 10-4.
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I'm guilty, I pleaded guilty in the court of law, but it was my ignorance.
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You know that I've seen that seems to annihilate young men these days, you know, because we refuse to see another light into truth.
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So that's what got me there.
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Wow, yes, sir Got you.
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Okay, let's turn the corner.
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Okay, we out here.
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Now we released.
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So what was the?
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What was the hardest thing in coming outside, transitioning from there to freedom, that you could, that you can think of being free now, tony.
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You know, I'm going to tell you, the hardest thing for me was wearing that badge as a convicted felon Mm-hmm.
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Wow, you know, when I speak of ignorance, yeah, that was hard.
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Yeah, you know, my ignorance was a point.
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I spent my time bettering myself, you know, and just making myself a prize through a lot of different things and the way things work.
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But when I came out, it was always the bounds of saying, okay, now you enlightened, so how do you tread?
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So you can be angry at a system, you know, but the anger comes from within, because now you realize how much time you wasted.
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So when I look at it, you know I started this at 27.
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We were in our 20s when we first met and I came home and they were singing me happy 40th birthday.
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So I only had two years on the street at 30 years old and I came home at 40.
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Now I'm 50 years old.
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So when I start looking at it, it's a transition to realize wake up and say this is what I made of my life.
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You know what I'm saying.
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We can blame it on POs or whatever.
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It's just that these are some of the scales that you have to have to weigh.
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You know when you commit these crimes and you get the opportunity to be free again.
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So the hardest thing for me is wearing that shroud of convicted felon, knowing that you can contribute to the community and give back, and finding that leeway or opportunity to do that.
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That has been one struggle for myself Because, no, we all need someone.
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I truly believe that people are the true value of commodity.
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You know what I'm saying.
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It's not things.
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People are, and sometimes in the community, when we come back, we don't receive people like that Some of our family members do.
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But it was me transitioning to the point to say, okay, I served my time.
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I want to be a productive citizen, but you're not allowing me to do that because you're not giving me an opportunity.
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You keep saying this is something that happened 20 years ago and you're saying this is why I can't vacuum cars at your dealership, because of the bags.
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For $8 an hour I was willing to work.
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I made 23 cents an hour.
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I was willing to slave.
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They wouldn't give me an opportunity, right.
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Because of that badge.
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Because of that badge I wore.
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That felony badge yeah.
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Yeah, felony badge.
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I went to school.
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I started going back to school at 40 years old.
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I got myself, I made the dean's list, twice the president's list.
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I got on the National Board of Honor for Collegiate Scholars.
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They invited me there.
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I could have went to any school.
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I could have went to Harvard, I could have went anywhere, but because of that felony it eliminated me as a barrier crime to serve in a profession that I knew more from lived experience and also educational knowledge, which has barred me from that profession.
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Wow, I met the governor, the Senate governor.
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They told me go.
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I got my rights restored.
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But that's telling.
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That has been a hard thing, man.
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Wow, yes, sir.
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So, Steve, speak to us about your transition.
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What was the battles for you in terms of transitioning to freedom?
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The biggest battle for me was primarily starting over.
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You know, when I came home, a lot of things changed as far as how the city was.
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You know, things were tore down, Things were rebuilt and for a while I felt like a stranger in my own home because I kind of had to learn certain spots all over again.
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Yeah right, but my biggest hurdle was, like Tony said, was trying to get a job.
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You know sometimes, you know, I know they teach us to be honest about you know, your felony- Right.
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You know, and it's been a few times that I did and, like Tony said, because of that badge, you know it's like every you know, you know served your time and it's been 15, 20 years ago.
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You know you still carrying that bag around your neck saying that you're a felon and they don't want to give you a chance, and most oftentimes, you know people that's been incarcerated.
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We just want to get back out there and start rebuilding.
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You know some of us, you know, yeah, we still have that mentality where we want to go out and make that fast money.
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But you do have that group that you know.
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Okay, I've done this, I'm ready to do this now and to what tony said, that all the time that we we gave to the state yeah in reference to get you know serving time.
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We can't get that back and get it back.
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You know we lost.
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You know, like myself lost.
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We lost a lot of productive years.
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You know whether building, building a lifestyle, or you know, like with me, you know I don't have any biological kids, but you know you lose that time and you can't get it back and young people need to realize that you know sometimes they glamorize.
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you glamorize being incarcerated, but they don't really understand the magnitude of what you lose once you're incarcerated and then the reality of when you get back out, because a lot of times you know the Department of Corrections don't really prepare you for re-entry.
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You know you kind of got to like take that by the horns yourself.
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You know, take advantage of those classes, those programs or whatever that they have inside.
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But the world is ever-changing, as we already know.
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It's ever-changing, so the biggest hurdle was getting out and restarting.
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Wow.
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So what was yours, Chris?
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What was your?
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challenge.
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I can go along with the guys and I really like the way Tony said.
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I don't think I've never used that term before Permanent Jordan, but that's real, that's real talk, man Shout out to Tony, because you were there.
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You were there.
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Even though you may not see this scar anymore or you may have been healed from the scar, everyone else still see this scar.
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You may say, well, man, I can get in the race, I can run just like everyone else, but someone else still is saying, no, you have that scar there.
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I think I shared with you before, chuck, how I went.
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You know, went to apply for this certain job and I had a guy that took me to apply for the job.
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He was selling drugs Me.
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On the other hand, I was determined to do right and, you know, go and live a productive life.
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I get in there.
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They accept his application, but they I was being honest, right, and they told me, no, we don't have, we don't have.
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So you know, I had so many encounters like that where, you know, I was turned away and, you know, a little bit discouraged and I know, you know, this podcast is for everyone, yes, but I have to say, man, if it wasn't for the grace of God, that's right, right.
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Say that again.
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If it wasn't for what?
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If it wasn't for the grace of God, absolutely, that encouraged me in my discouragement because, there were days where I was like lord, I just want to get a chance.
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Yeah, I just want an opportunity, absolutely.
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That's why and I like the way, tony, you know you want to try to do uh, get a program started for guys.
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Okay, you know you and I talk about it, chuck yeah um, because you have to have people that actually have a heart for me and because it's tough, man, when you come out and if you don't have the right people around you, right, you can easily be derailed, you can be discouraged.
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Because you can have a plan, you can think you want to do the right thing, but yet because, man, people turn you away.
00:17:35.736 --> 00:17:38.167
Yeah, you know it can discourage you.
00:17:38.167 --> 00:17:48.854
So, yes, man, the hardest part for me just like those guys the tony and steve just said is having a felon and, um, just having the opportunity, man, to do what you know you can do, right.
00:17:48.854 --> 00:17:49.555
So, yeah, that's it.
00:17:49.555 --> 00:17:51.186
I agree with what is everything they're saying?
00:17:51.207 --> 00:17:54.354
man, yes, yeah I think for mine it was starting over.
00:17:54.354 --> 00:18:05.737
Um, I was blessed to have my dad already working in a particular spot, so I was like I called him before I came home because I was like, man, I'm making 23 cents and I started thinking about what if I make $10 an hour?
00:18:07.333 --> 00:18:09.144
I started counting on my fingers.
00:18:10.489 --> 00:18:11.009
I said man.
00:18:12.032 --> 00:18:13.175
I said can I get a job?
00:18:13.175 --> 00:18:15.232
And he made it happen.
00:18:15.232 --> 00:18:23.375
So when I came home I started working, like three days later, on the night shift, man, but one of the craziest things, like you said, steve, things change.
00:18:23.375 --> 00:18:29.684
And it was something on the counter at my mom and dad's house and it was something like a satellite.
00:18:29.684 --> 00:18:31.291
I thought it was a DVD player.
00:18:31.291 --> 00:18:34.194
So that's how much time I had missed.
00:18:34.194 --> 00:18:37.534
I'm thinking I'm like, how can you open this?
00:18:37.534 --> 00:18:43.515
But it was for the cable, but I had missed so much time, man, so much time.
00:18:44.066 --> 00:18:45.089
And things change, change.
00:18:45.089 --> 00:18:47.067
You got these phones and all that kind of stuff.
00:18:47.067 --> 00:18:49.775
So starting over was one of the biggest things.
00:18:49.775 --> 00:19:04.413
Do y'all think, um, because these programs I want to talk about, this program you're talking about too, chris and and tony, but do you think that's the reason why there's a revolving door sometimes, that people really don't want to go back to prison, but they, they have nowhere else to go?
00:19:04.413 --> 00:19:10.086
I had family, we had family, but a lot of people don't have that family, they don't have anywhere to go.
00:19:10.086 --> 00:19:12.330
So do you think that's a big issue, tony?
00:19:12.711 --> 00:19:14.154
I'm a speak candidate, you know.
00:19:14.154 --> 00:19:18.571
I just want to give a quote on prison policy dot org.
00:19:18.571 --> 00:19:25.575
You know it states that African-Americans make up 13 percent but there's over 38 percent of black persons in jail.
00:19:25.575 --> 00:19:31.874
So when I started thinking about my whole trip, I got to stay with Chris, if it wasn't for the grace of God.
00:19:32.406 --> 00:19:42.713
So when I look at the program, some of these programs are aesthetically there but they're not there to reach, because you have people who are educated but yet have a stigma towards the ones they're trying to help.
00:19:42.713 --> 00:19:53.516
So they can look book-wise to understand it and statistically, but they don't understand the demographics because some people are coming back into the same situation that brought them into the system in the first place.
00:19:53.516 --> 00:20:01.651
So when we start to get into these systems, I look at it to the point that it's an awakening for everyone, because you know all of our shared experiences.
00:20:01.651 --> 00:20:15.984
Whether you're a parole officer, police officer, law enforcement, we should work together and we should use the experiences of men who have gone there, who have a heart for men, that they can come to a conclusion and say how can we make it better?
00:20:16.125 --> 00:20:27.474
You know the system is there to set up, you know to be proactive, but it's also there for people to fall through the cracks, is also there for people to fall through the cracks, and that's something that we always have to continue to work on, because as long as we're people, there's always going to be crime.
00:20:27.474 --> 00:20:33.374
It just goes back to the one that we keep people from the recidivism rate and start giving people opportunities.
