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Join us as we unfold the harrowing tale of Tony Edward Lewis, a man who has been behind bars for 50 long years since he was a mere teenager, with my relentless guest, Karen Morrison - the founder and president of Fighting 4 Freedom LLC. Karen passionately shares her mission to liberate Tony who was convicted of sexual assault at 16, and despite receiving a commutation from the Governor, remains imprisoned. The injustice and the necessity for second chances become alarmingly apparent as we explore this deeply affecting case.
Karen also sheds light on the immense toll this has taken on Tony's family. His ailing mother and his determined sisters, who are ceaselessly working for his release, are the human faces of a seemingly endless fight for justice. She also dissect the circumstances around the Governor's commutation and the ensuing legal efforts to bring Tony home. The call, then, is to every listener of my podcast: join this fight by lending your support to the Fighting 4 Freedom organization.
My conversation with Karen Morrison takes a broader turn as we talk about the larger issue of incarcerated black men and the lack of concern for those in prison. This episode pays tribute to the tireless efforts of families who refuse to abandon the fight for freedom and justice. I invite you to lend your ear, engage in this thought-provoking discourse and join us in advocating for a more empathetic and equitable judicial system. Listen up, and join us in being a part of the solution.
Welcome back to another episode of Let's Just Talk About It podcast. I'm your host, chuck, and if you're here for the first time, this platform was created to give genuine people just like you an opportunity to share a portion of your life's journey. So, with that being said, i'm excited to have returning guests Karen Morrison, the founder and president of Fighting for Freedom LLC, on with me today, where she shares her passion in helping to free Tony Edward Lewis from prison, where he's been since 1973, at the age of 16 years old. So, hey, do me a favor, go and grab your husband, your wife, your children, or even call a friend and gather around to listen to my conversation with Karen on Let's Just Talk About It podcast. Hey, let's jump right in. Welcome back to another episode of Let's Just Talk About It podcast. Today I have with me the returning guest, ms Karen Morrison, the founder and president of Fighting for Freedom LLC. She's an advocate for men and women who are currently incarcerated, fighting for them for the possibility of a second chance back into society, and so today she's back to talk about the case of Tony Edward Lewis versus Commonwealth of Virginia. So welcome back, karen.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me and allowing me to use this platform to bring stories of people like Tony Edward Lewis, who's been incarcerated since he was 16 years old and he's now 66 years old. It is my pleasure and thank you again.
Speaker 1:Wow, how you doing today.
Speaker 2:I'm doing great. Since COVID happened I've been kind of like in the house and the office is constantly working, So anytime I have an opportunity to come out and to be in your presence and to just really be able to use this platform to get the stories out, it is my pleasure to be here this morning.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love to jump right into my interviews to have those genuine conversations with genuine people just like yourself. So let's jump right in and talk about this case.
Speaker 2:Okay, so let me tell you about Tony Edward Lewis. So basically, tony is from Hampton, his family's from Hampton. At the age of 16, he was accused of a sexual assault against the woman with a couple other boys. Tony just did not know how to navigate the judicial system and felt like, if he went into a trial, that they were going to see that he had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately, at the age of 16, he was convicted for the sexual assault and was sentenced to South Hampton County for 25 years. Now think about this. Let me kind of give you some context. It was in 1973. So when you went into prison at 25, for a sentence of 25 years, you usually did like maybe about two and a half years, three years, and then you were released. Unfortunately, in 1975, tony and some men that were in South Hampton County Correctional Center they did not plan an escape, it just happened right And one of the his co-defendants decided that at this particular time he saw breach in security. There were two correctional officers that were just not together And one of the co-defendants jumped on top of the correctional officer and caused his death. So unfortunately, back in 1975 in South Hampton County Correctional Center, you have three African American young men. They were boys, because Tony was 18, his co-defendant was 17, and the person who jumped on a guard was about 20 years old. So what they saw was three black men in prison that caused the death of a white correctional officer and immediately They wanted to put them to death. So Tony went to trial first and he was convicted of first degree murder in causing a death. And now let me just tell you something, because I've done my research on this. People just don't know this, but there was only one jury instruction And the jury instruction said if any person, incarcerated person, cause the death of a correctional officer, they have to fix the punishment to first degree murder and death. So the jury had no other choice but to sentence an 18 year old to death. He was the first one to go up the second code of fin and also received a death penalty. And the person who jumped on a guard and it was not his intention, he just felt like you know, i'm going to jump on a guard, put him in a cell and then we're going to escape, we're going to get out of here. Right, they didn't have the mindset, they weren't malicious, they weren't calculating, they didn't want to kill these correctional officers. They wanted to escape, they wanted to get out of prison Right And so in turn, it was just so unfortunate that when Michael Cross, who jumped on a guard, when the guard fell, he hit his head against an iron railing, that cause, that's how the cell bars used to look like And that is what caused the injury. But of course you know, please don't be offended. But these white officers and the white guard and the white prosecutor, they decided to make an example out of these three African American young men and wanted to execute them. But Michael Cross had a great attorney Everyone from Norfolk should know William P Robinson the late.
Speaker 1:William P Robinson Yeah.
Speaker 2:He defended him and he defended the second co-defendant. So, of course, fast forward. Michael was convicted of first degree murder and was not given a death penalty, whereas Tony had a public defender and was given a death penalty. Wow, vernon Joe also was represented by William P Robinson. He received a death penalty, but they set the jury aside, the judgment aside, right away. And so, in 1976, Governor Mill Godwin, who realized that this statue was unconstitutional, decided that he wanted to commute the sentence. Well, when you hear a governor's commutation, you think, wow, great, oh, he spared the lives There's no execution. But what the governor did was he violated their constitutional right because he knew that if he commuted the sentence, if you commuted death sentence to life sentence, it takes away the eligibility for parole, and the injustice that's taken place in this particular case is that they're using a 1961 statue that had not realized that the death penalty was unconstitutional. It was cruel and unusual punishment. So Tony Lewis has been incarcerated since 1973. Remember he was 16 when he entered. So he's technically a 16 year old juvenile serving life without the possibility of parole. Wow, well, you would think that the laws have changed. The Supreme Court has ruled about the death penalty. They ruled about juveniles, and you would, you would assume, or you would think, that Tony Lewis would have an opportunity to meet in front of the Virginia parole board. Well, he doesn't. In 2014, terry McCullough, former governor, decided to do something that was just to me. I feel like it was brave. He made it automatic for people who had been over 60 and had been serving a long time in prison to go up automatically for geriatric parole. Wow, so Tony began going up for geriatric parole when he turned 16. Parole when he turned 60 years old. When the family bought me on to the case. We were preparing for parole eligibility. I was excited because I had gone and had an opportunity to meet Tony Lewis. I knew that this was going to be a great case. I had research, i had gotten all the information, he had apologized for his actions during the crime and we were ready to go for parole. But the heartbreak in part was on May 23rd, when Tony was supposed to meet with the parole examiner. No one showed up. They didn't give him an explanation of why he wasn't going to meet with the parole examiner, wow. So now he's wondering what's going on. So he calls his family. They call me. The next day I email the parole board to say Hey, we have, the family has an advocacy meeting. We were going to meet with the chair of the parole board on May 25th And Tony Lewis did not meet with the examiner. Are we going to be able to reschedule his time And are we moving forward with our date? They responded, due to an error, he was not eligible for parole, that somehow he was going up for seven years and it was a mistake. Wow, and I'm baffled because I'm like I read the case. There's two other co-defendants, they're going up a parole. So why isn't Tony Lewis going up And all they could do was say sorry for the inconvenience? Well, sorry for the inconvenience mean that you just condemned the man to die in prison, not just a man, a juvenile offender. That is supposed to be protected under the law, protected under the equal amendments to say that juveniles no longer have the brain capacity to be sentenced to death or to die in prison, but you condemned him. And all you can say when I say that, well, he was 18 when he committed the crime. Okay, so then let's really dissect this. He was 18 when he put a guard in a cell. The way that I look at it, tony saved that guard because that guard was not harm, he was not touched. When the guys got out of the cell, you had all kinds of incarcerated individuals free, but instead of you looking at him, like him, putting someone in a cell to make sure that he's safe, you have condemned him to die. There's no compassion that you're feeling right now. I have emails, i have talked to everybody I possibly can, and they're all saying well, it's out of my hand. No, it is in your hand to go back and reevaluate if I'm a layperson that doesn't know the law, and I could read a commutation from a governor that says I commute the sentence from death to life. Does that not mean that he's eligible for parole? One argument from 1961, before they understood that the death penalty was unconstitutional, is what you're using, and we're talking about Attorney General's office. We're talking about people that are very well versed in the law, and no one will stop what they're doing to look at what is going on, and all I'm asking is to make him eligible for parole so that we can at least prove to you that he's earned his way back. But they won't even do that. So now what we were doing is fighting for freedom, is raising funds so that we can hire an attorney to take this to court, and now, instead of just asking for eligibility for parole, i'm going to ask for this case to be overturned and to deem Tony Lewis wrongfully incarcerated, because you have now put us in a position that we're going to have to prove to you that you have been unfair the entire time to a 16-year-old, when you condemned him to die in prison for years. His co-defendants were going up in 1988, and he's never had the opportunity until 2016. And then you took it away from him And one of the co-defendants actually made parole in 2019. That part.
Speaker 1:So what drives you, what motivates you to continue to fight for this one?
Speaker 2:What motivates me is the fact that I started my career off as a school teacher. So when I look at Tony, i see a 16-year-old, now 66 years old, that has to live in a cell his entire life. That Tony Lewis, if you really evaluated him when he was going through the judicial system, was reading on a third grade level. His comprehension was at a 4.6. His reading was at a 3.2. How much did he understand? And we say that we're a nation of second chances. I read all the time. I read about people like Brian Stevenson, who has started the Equal Justice Initiative. I read about attorneys that have dedicated their lives to juvenile justice And when you hear about these types of cases and they have so many, because I've reached out and they've been so great and given me advice But now what I'm saying is we're looking for a lawyer because at the end of the day, you put a 16-year-old that has not had any life other than a prison and you won't even let him die in society as a free man. You are going to condemn him to die in prison for killing a guard, and he did not participate in the death of the guard. Where's the justice in that? So I'm fighting for justice, and that's what's driving me for the Tony Lewis case.
Speaker 1:Wow, So where's he at now?
Speaker 2:So Tony Lewis is incarcerated in Greensville Correctional Center And I do have to say like please listen to me and listen to me carefully Harold Clark, the Department of Correction has been really good for my advocacy program because I had been at such a disadvantage, and so when I said to him that I wanted to do the Tony Lewis case and the Michael Cross case, he allowed me to go in to meet with both gentlemen, because they had been incarcerated for over 50 years and I wanted to put them in a great position so that they could have a great chance at parole eligibility. So I'm not at war with the Department of Corrections. I'm not at war with the Attorney General or with the parole board.
Speaker 1:All I'm asking them to do is I'm fighting for a second chance.
Speaker 2:And just to look at this, because I've said this to them right, they're not the ones that did it right, they're not the ones that condemned him to die. Somehow something happened where a glitch in the system was made And then you came back and said, oh, it was an error. But you have to realize that maybe it wasn't an error. This was something that was done to correct an injustice. So don't go and undo it. Give him the possibility for parole so that I can take him up with his family Tony Lewis can tell his story and just give him a chance to be able to at least go through the parole process and prove that he has earned his way back into society. Fifty years of incarceration for a 16-year-old is still deemed cruel and unusual punishment. It is what it is.
Speaker 1:So he's there in the Greenville Correctional. How was he doing?
Speaker 2:He's doing as best as he possibly can do because they have not made it official. The three branches that I just mentioned the Attorney General, this office, the Virginia Parole Board and Courts and Legal they all have not sent him a formal letter. So as far as I'm concerned, this is not in writing yet. And so as it's not in writing, it's not formal, he doesn't have the notification yet. I'm still going back and forth weekly sending emails to say you still have an opportunity to correct this. Now when he gets the letter it becomes formal and then I can hire an attorney and then we're ready to go. So they still have an opportunity to do what's right before they make it formal. And I'm just asking them to look at the record Like. I even sent over the jury instructions, right, the jury instructions said again any person participating in this crime it doesn't even have to be Tony Lewis Any person who participated in the crime for the attempted escape and the guard was killed, the only punishment is death. And then I got a letter from the governor with his decision for commutation. He says that I'm going to do this quote I'm going to do this because the Supreme Court's decision has made the statute invalid. So that means the death penalty statute that they use was invalid. So he has a sentence that is technically void And then the governor substituted it by giving him a commutation for life. So what they have told me was that Vernon Joe became eligible because when the governor commuted a sentence there was no death penalty sentence to commute. So life imprisonment at that time meant that you were eligible for parole. So if you did that for Vernon Joe, why would you not do that for Tony Lewis? It's right there, but they don't want to make the correction And just like how there was a glitch in the system that made him eligible, put the key back in there and undo it, hit the undo button and make him eligible for parole.
Speaker 1:It's that simple.
Speaker 2:And then the part that I'm and I get emotional when I talk to them the departments. it's just not an era. It's not sorry for the inconvenience. What you have said essentially is we have condemned Tony Edward Lewis to die in prison. There's words behind that. That's what that means that if this is not fixed, tony Edward Lewis will die in prison for his actions, that disregarding justice. And when you disregard justice because you don't want to fix something that you know is wrong, then we just have to go ahead and go to court. I tried to be the type of person that says listen, here's all the information that I've gathered, i've done the research for you. I'm not sure if you have this document, because I have it And if you read it, you can see the governor's intentions. the governor violated their constitutional right by doing a commutation, because he knew that the commutation was higher than the courts, and so what happened was he substituted the judgment. So when he commutated the sentence right, commuted the sentence what that meant was that anytime they tried to go back to court, well, there's a commutation. But you would think that the commutation would have been done in a way that, okay, well, give him back the eligibility. but the governor knew that people would not pay attention.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's what they're doing.
Speaker 2:Or people would use what he did and leave it alone, instead of being on the right side of the law. What I'm finding is that people who say that they're on the right side of the law, they're on the wrong side with this because common sense would tell you in 1961, the death penalty was on the books. In 1972, questions started to come in the Supreme Court. Now, chuck, am I mistaken? I thought the Supreme Court was the highest court of the land. And if the Supreme Court, doing a particular period of time 1972 to 1976, made a decision that the statues were unconstitutional and the governor had it in his arsenal, he knew it, i mean, i have it in writing He knew that the codes were unconstitutional and they were invalid And that's why he chose. And the letter that I received says I made the decision to commute the sentence ahead of it because the ruling was going to come down. And he set him up. And I'm going to be honest Tony Lewis is the only one that is not eligible. Vernon Joe is eligible and Michael Cross is eligible And, like I've said and I've stated again, eligibility doesn't mean you're going to get out of prison. What it means that you have a possibility to go in front of the parole board and show them that you're not the same person. And for years, even the other two. They spent the majority of their lives in prison. And again we know the brain science behind juveniles. Vernon Joe, the person who was released. He was 17. And the entire argument was he was 17 years old and he was a juvenile. Well, tony Lewis was 18, but he was intellectually disabled. He was reading on a third grade level. You don't need a test. I'm a school teacher. I know. If I have a person that is 16 and was reading on a third grade level, he's reading well below the level that he's supposed to be And he doesn't understand. Think about a third grader. You're putting them in a court system and you have all these legal jargon that they're going through and they don't even understand the language. And then you have him sitting there in a court trying to figure out well, why did I just get convicted And what does conviction mean? And then you put them in South Hampton County and remember South Hampton County's where. Nat Turner did his rebellion right Back then. And so there. So you have these young African American men in prison with white guards that are still beating them like their slaves and everything else. And of course you know I don't condone the actions, but their mindset was yo, let's get out of here. They saw a breach in security. They saw that two guards that were on duty at the time that were supposed to be together One was in a different location, another was in a different location And what they decided to do that day was one person jumped on a guard, some dude and put him in a cell. Another guard was taken in a cell unharmed, right And somebody opened the cell doors. These guys got out. They had mattresses going over the wall. They're like let's go, let's go, get free, get free. And it's like a mayhem And unfortunately we sympathize with the family because a guard's life was lost and the guard was 28 years old. And of course we say that they have to be punished. Right, But how long is punishment?
Speaker 1:He's 60 years old 66.
Speaker 2:66 years old, wow, 16. And he's 66. He spent half his life, more than half And all. I've asked the parole board to have some type of compassion. courts and legal, the attorney general's office, have some compassion and give this man a couple years of freedom because he's eventually going to die. Let him know what it's like to be outside in the world. His mother has been sick the entire time since he was 16. And she's holding on because all she wants to do is to touch her son, to hug her son. His sisters have grown up and they're the force that's behind me, that is calling and asking and what can we do to help? They hired me and I'm giving them direction and they can see that I'm breaking, i'm hurting, i'm. my heart is so heavy. And they're like Karen we have faith in you, we know that God chose you to do this, that God put you here in this place And all. We're asking you to be strong, because we know that you're going to get the wisdom And again, spiritually led, i've been able to get all the documents, because I'll be sleeping and I'll wake up and I'll be like, oh, I should call the library of Virginia and ask them this. And when I asked for the entire commutation order, at first they just sent me the order And then I was sleeping and I was like you know what I feel like there's got to be details to it, there's got to be a public statement that the governor made. So I called back and I said, hey, i want to order this, is it possible for me to get it? And I got the letter. And when I received the letter and they preserved it which was great, his thought pattern I knew that this was going to be an unconstitutional statue and they would have the opportunity to either be released or retried And that's why I'm commuting their sentence.
Speaker 1:Got you. So anything else you want to leave with the listening audience about this case.
Speaker 2:I just want people to help me fight, and not necessarily they can call the governor's office, they can call the parole board, they can call the attorney general. any youthful organization that do juvenile justice. we really can use your help. Any attorneys who know death penalty inside and out, why the statue is invalid. anyone who wants to join this team I'm starting a team. I need the experts. All I can do is just read and think of things in terms of a layman, but I know that I need a legal expert, and the biggest thing right now is we have an attorney that is ready to go and he's going to do a pro bono, but we don't want him to have to pay any expenses, like he's going to have to travel to Virginia, he's got to meet with Tony Lewis and things like that, and so what we're asking is we need to raise some funds. I'm asking for donations, and when I talk about donations, i'm talking about $10, $50, $200, $2,000, $10,000, anything that you can do to help, because not only are we going to make the way for Tony Lewis, but others but others. And I was smart enough to take his co-defendant, michael Cross, because Michael Cross is the person who jumped on the God and caused the death. And from day one, people don't understand this. Michael Cross stopped and went to the warden's office and admitted he was the sole person, that this was not a plan escape, and he took accountability and he expressed remorse. But that didn't matter to them. What mattered was that they wanted to bring other people And if it wasn't for the United States Supreme Court, tony Lewis and Vernon Joe would have been executed. They would have been dead. For this I need you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you want to support Fighting for Freedom, you can contact Karen Morvisen at Wichita Social Media.
Speaker 2:It's fighting. Underscore the number four, underscore freedom. Underscore fighting for freedom. We have a website, fightingforfreedominfo, and I'm available. Just Google me and you'll find me, but at this particular time I'm coming out, like on a Saturday morning. But I'm coming out because this is so important to me. I really, really want to get the Tony Lewis story out And I just again thank you for the platform that you've always given me. Anytime I call you and say, hey, I need to get on your show, you stop what you're doing and you invite me And I just appreciate you And I appreciate the listening and I appreciate the followers, because Fighting for Freedom is not the organization that we are. Without you And I'm crying out this time because the donations are going to be important We're going to take a man that's condemned to die in prison And I know in my gut, we're going to bring him home alive.
Speaker 1:Wow, thank you for having me. You're welcome. So is it possible that I could get Mr Tony Lewis the call on the show? Well, we're going to try.
Speaker 2:We're going to try because, you know, greensville is a little bit different but I will definitely try. And if we don't get Tony Lewis, i'll also try to get Michael Cross, because he has a powerful story, like you know, michael Cross. Again I'm getting emotional because I had an opportunity to meet Michael Cross And this has been so heavy on his heart. He said to me, karen, i would give up my parole eligibility to substitute it for Tony If they wanted to execute me now for this crime. I would be executed so that Tony Lewis could have an opportunity. And I said to Michael you don't have to do that. What we have to do is to show that when you were 20 years old, he was married and he had children. And Michael Cross only thought was I just want to get home to my wife, i left two young children behind and that I'm going to be in prison for a very long time. He didn't think the process through, he didn't see the consequences.
Speaker 1:He thought, if I jumped on his guard?
Speaker 2:put him in a cell. That's all he said. I want to jump on the guard, put him in a cell And I wanted to go home to my wife and to my kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now he's been in prison. His wife has died, his mother's died, the children are all grown up And we have to start to have a justice system that balance itself out, that as soon as you start to see a person as rehabilitated, that they're different. Why do we still in the United. States condemn people to die in prison, why do we continue to incarcerate men of color? for a very long time and continue to incarcerate them for a life. He spent 50 years. punishment enough. They think that keeping them in a cell is a punishment. That's not the punishment. to know your wife, the love of your life, has now died and she died alone. That's his punishment. Wow, and I'm fighting for Michael Cross. Wow, but thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you being on Let's Just Talk About It podcast. I love you being up here to share what you're doing. I love your passion for what you're doing, and so there's anybody out there who want to support Karen Morrison, contact her so we can get Tony Lewis out And Michael Cross And Michael Cross out. So thanks again, karen.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Wow, what an amazing conversation. Shout out to my friend, karen Morrison, for having this dialogue with me. You know, i realize now that everyone is not concerned about people who are incarcerated, especially for black men who have been there nearly all their lives, like Tony Lewis, michael Cross and Bo Billy, just to name a few That to society they're just a number and nearly forgotten if it wasn't for their families and people like Karen Morrison who passionately fight for their freedom to have a second chance at life. So shout out to you, karen, and shout out to those families who won't give up the fight for their freedom. As always, thank you so much for tuning in to Let's Just Talk About It podcast, and please check out my website. Just Google Let's Just Talk About It podcastcom and then hit that subscribe button to receive all the new episodes every Friday. You can also find me on Facebook. Just type in Chuck LJTAI, which means Let's Just Talk About It. So, as always, until next time, don't hold it in, but Let's Just Talk About It. Talk to you soon.
